In case you are not on twitter, I thought I would share some quotes from this last weekend’s first National Vineyard Women’s Conference: Lead on. The following is taken from Thursday night. Le Que told her story. Then Ken Wilson spoke.
“You have a story. If you’re not in touch with it, if you’re not telling it… the body of Christ needs your story.” LeQue
“God, where these women are bound by comparing themselves, will you break those chains.” LeQue
Ken Wilson:How a convinced “complementarian” changes his stripes.
Ken opened with a little bit of his story about being involved in the Charismatic Catholic Movement. In this movement only men could be elders. When his daughter was still young one day they were in the car and she asked him if women could be elders. Telling her “no,” broke his heart.
When facing a debatable issue, make your best judgment and proceed with conviction, confidence and faith.
- It’s time to re-examine our position if it violates ‘Love your neighbor.
- It’s time to re-examine our position when it diminishes the goodness of the good news.
- It’s time to re-examine our position when reasonable people can’t find a way to apply our reading of scripture.
- It’s time to re-examine when our reading seems to oppose the dynamic thrust of the Spirit in history. The spirit of God has an agenda for human history- and it’s to transform and change it.Hard to make the case in our culture that the gospel oppresses women. Goes against what the spirit is doing.
- Either we let women lead at the highest level or we don’t let them lead. We can’t split the difference.”
- “Our movement has decided that there are NO restrictions placed on women in ministry.”
- Once you put your hand to the plough, finish it with confidence!”
- “Our call as followers of Jesus is not to cautiously avoid mistakes but to boldly bear witness to the kingdom- The Church culture in America is filled with male privilege. As a woman, how do you wade through that?”
- “To follow Jesus is to follow him outside the boundaries of human privilege.”
- “Limiting some women affects all women. Don’t delay the day of decision. A wrestling match needs to come to a point of decision.”
Practical Points:
- “Don’t confuse humility with apologizing. Apologize for sin, not for calling.”
- “Jesus didn’t say “I don’t mean to be brazen, and don’t take it the wrong way, but before Abraham, I Am.”‘
- “Regard love as the ultimate power position.”"Love is never a sign of weakness. It’s always a sign of strength.” “All other forms of power are weakness in comparison to love. When we seek the approval of others, we are loving ourselves more than we are loving them.”
{ 5 comments… read them below or add one }
Hello
I have been an attendee and supporter of the Evanston Vineyard for the past 19.5 years. I am aware of the recent unveiling of the plan regarding women in ministry. I do have some concerns and questions.
Where did the word “complementarian” come from? (It’s not in my dictionary.) Can someone please define it for me and others? I’m hoping that those who have signed on to this plan can fully articulate this and other new concepts behind it.
I wrote an earlier post regarding some of the discussion and theory around this new decision. I was mostly questioning the choice of the word “equality” in the arguments defending the new plan. To me, servant leadership and distinctive roles for men and women have nothing to do with rights and equality. (Please read my other post for my full thoughts on that point.)
I am aware that the new “game plan” was announced to the women gathered at the recent women’s conference in Evanston. Will Pastor Waggoner take the same care to deliver the announcement to the male sector of the Vineyard Ministries worldwide? If not, I ask why? It would certainly make the whole thing feel less like a “behind closed doors” decision. I’m wondering why there hasn’t been church wide discussions among both genders prior to making such an important decision. Why was there not a drawing of wisdom from the faithful congregants among us? Due to the fact that the announcement comes as a total surprise to many, it has a very roughshod feel to it.
Thank you for reading my thoughts; I’d appreciate some feedback regarding my concerns and questions.
Sincerely
Diane Doyle
Diane,
I found a great article for you that explains the history and meaning of “complementarian” in this context. As the article mentions it is a confusing term, because most all believers would like to say that men and women have complementing skills, roles, gifts. However what is meant by “complementarian” is something much more specific that clearly restricts women from many roles and callings. If we truly believe that men and women are complementary then should not those men and women who are gifted to lead lead us together, their strengths complementing each other serving the Lord?
In regards to “rights” and “equality,” I believe those are two very different words. As followers of Jesus, we have laid down our rights. Granting women the freedom to be function in any role they are gifted and called to, is not about rights but it is about equality. Genesis 1:27 says “So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.” As men and women we are created in the image of God, that is where the idea of equality comes from.
As far as the Vineyard, this is not a new game plan. As Cindy laid out beautifully during the leadership session women have always had an important place in the Vineyard. I hope to publish her talk as a blog article soon. In 2006, the Vineyard USA board announced to all Vineyard pastors (and I believe posted on the Vineyard USA site) that with prayerful discussion they unanimously voted to “in response to the message of the kingdom, the leadership of the Vineyard movement will encourage, train, and empower women at all levels of leadership both local and trans- local. The movement as a whole welcomes the participation of women in leadership in all areas of ministry.” For the last few years prior to this decision at conferences around the country discussions were held about this topic. This decision did not mandate that any local church that disagreed with this theologically ordain women or leave the Vineyard, but some churches did leave. This was not done behind closed doors.
As far as feeling left out of the decision as a congregant. I am newer to the Evanston Vineyard and cannot speak to how the transition happened in the local church. I am sure that the pastors would be happy to discuss your concerns even today. But, on a personal note I ask you to pray and consider digging deeper in matter. Not all men, and not all women are called to leadership positions, and but some men and women do feel called to leadership positions. No one is greater or lesser for it. I was in seminary when I received the news of the ceiling being lifted in the Vineyard. This was great joy to me, because my whole life the Lord has been calling me to pastor.
Thank you,
Amy
Hi Amy
I thank you for your very thoughtful and thorough response to my post. There is a lot there for me to consider. I intend to respond but cannot do so at this time. I will do so as soon as I get a chance.
Again, I thank you for your care and consideration.
Diane
Hello Amy
I have a couple of comments. The first is with regards to your statement that “not all men and not all women are called to leadership positions…” I feel differently; each person certainly is called to servant leadership, as we each have a sphere of influence and we all have people who look to us one way or another. Perhaps what you mean is that not all people are called to have a titled position. Please clarify if I’m misunderstanding you here.
The other thing I am wondering is if I can have some published information regarding the opposing points of view in this multi-year discussion. Surely strong and seasoned men and women leaders throughout the worldwide Vineyard organization took positions against the move. It wouldn’t have been much of a discussion if there were not compelling arguments against it. I have at hand Rich Nathan’s position paper in support of it, I also read Rebecca Merrill Groothius’ article on the topic of complementarianism and perused the CBE International website, where much of the influence supporting the decision was likely derived. Can you please link me to the compelling arguments that opposed the view and decision. You mentioned that some churches left. Certainly the leaders of those churches penned or spoke some of their convictions on the matter.
One reason I ask for this is to better understand how this decision could have possibly been wrought. I, as a faithful congregant, want to view the discussion points. Congregants, who are not present for the actual discussions, rely on their leaders to make the full disclosure known to them, in order to be able to decide for themselves what side they line up with.
You wisely suggested that I dig in and I think this is a starting point.
Thanks again Amy. I look forward to reading more and understanding better.
Diane Doyle
A little late in coming into this conversation, but I’m going to echo what Diane said: I’d also like to view the discussion points.
I’ve always identified closer to Complementarianism than Egalitarianism, and I didn’t realize that my church has decided on the former. I’ve got to say that I’m somewhat disappointed, especially since this decision was evidently made so long ago, and I’m only just hearing about it.
Any additional information you can pass along regarding the conversations that were had would be appreciated, and would surly quell any ill feelings I have.
Melissa